Does anyone watch races?
Today a1gp drivers with thier 550Hp formule like cars, on a very tight track with lots of corners which in lfs would burn your tyres up in two laps.
Drivers all did the same on braking, and let te rear slide a bit to the oudside so the had very nice turn-in on the corners. Also in corners minimal slides all over, because these cars are apparently very nice to drive om the limit.

What did i say sliding?? Hmm according to many lfs people any type of pushing, driving fast etc. is not realistic and the cause of tyre-heat. So convinced it is also not possible in reality, because lfs changes reality. :bowdown:


I think it is a very simple problem, tyres temps and dirt-effect just needs some adjustments in lfs and all will be fine and lfs will be even more great.
I get a bit annoyed that people with real live experience, real racing drivers are told they are driving wrong,They are more or less told told: "Lfs can never be wrong.", You must be doing something wrong.

Sorry i disagree, to those people: Its on telly, youtube etc. see for yourself, real tyres dont overheat so fast and are not as bad with some dirt on it(althougt dirt certainly changes grips levels).

Quote from MAGGOT :

A lot of new-ish cars will only start in 'P' (Park) and when the brake pedal is pressed. More idiot-proofing, I guess.

Only experienced this in a renault auytomatic. Glad it was not my own car, not because of the safety mechanism, but the engine acted like it was already worn out with only 38000km driven. Oil consumption, loss of engine power(well the little amount it had, became even less), electronic failures of the computer. I did like the programming of the auto-box, felt like driving as someone is manually shifting the gears, reacting very well to heavy braking, accalaration etc.

But safety switch, never heard of it or saw it on cars with manual gear-boxes.

"There is no way, other than audibly and visually to know that the tire is locked up. Yes, the car will react, but since the best we have is ffb through the wheel...unless you have a simulator at home...and to visually react, and adjust the brake pedal. At that point, you've already locked up the brakes for a good amount of time, and probably already need to turn in."

Well with my rather simpel controller i don' t have trouble to figure out wheter i lock up or not. I can choose., lock both front, right front, or left front if i want to. But normally i never want to lock tyres ofcourse.

But i' m glad some agree, especially if an important braking point is full of bumps like on as national reversed just before the very tight lefthander. People just adjust brakes so they can hit brakes 100% making there brake distance very short with the 'abs' setting. Also on south city tracks, such settings gives sometimes a unrealistic advantage and a very digital racing experience, braking point is always identical, tyre temps or setup will hardly effect braking points with the 'abs' settings.

I will be waiting for the next updates :boing: and hope max brake force will have a lot higher minimum value or can' t be changed at all. For example, brake force of fo8 locked at max of 1600nm per wheel. Will create nightmares for some drivers though Who are not used to controlling the brake pedal.

Hallo,

I always wonder how people manage to race a car with brakes which would be banned on public road, because they can't lock the tyres. I nearly always have to put brakes on the setups before i start driving.

In real cars, espacially with downforce cars, the brakes have fixed strengt. You cannot set your brakes to be less powerfull, because irl you always want to have the strongest brakes possible. irl on race-cars you can set the amount of cooling of the brakes, but brake-heat is not yet in lfs. Also brake-balance an always be adjusted irl just as in lfs.

So a formule 1 car is not able to lock his tyres at topsppeed because the grip is too high but as speed goes down, the driver must lift the brake to avoid locking the tyres because downforce is also getting lower as speed decreases.

In lfs, people make sure they dont have to lift the pedal and set max brake power so low, the tyres will never or be very difficult to lock up. This takes away an important part of racing, being able to just not lock your tyres and in effect use a bad abs system.

My suggestion, make max brake force per wheel a fixed value for every car. Only brake-balance can be changed. Or at least increase the minimum values for brake power/wheel a lot please.

Quote from Primoz :

Lack of grip is not associated with lack of tread but because the tire is too hot and the rubber doesn't act optimally there. DOn't exactly know what happens to road tires, but racing tires start to blister and actually melt. I guess it's the same here. Less tread (when you just use it all up on the whole tire, uniformly) will even give you more grip - more surface area...

And learn to write in english dammit, your official language is not engrish.

Yes correct, but 10 degrees of higher temp will not rip apart your tyres. Offcourse grip will be a bit less but only a tiny bit. Overheat the tyre over 25 degrees, yes ok at such overheating soft racing tyres wil come apart.

High performance road-tyres perform very well in a very large range of tempatures, because they are designed to work in the rain with low tempatures, but alsof in very hot dry deserts.
The tyres on my own car have optimun grip from 15 degrees celcius all the way up to about 65 degrees. And also grip well all the way down to 1 degree celcius. Despite loaded to there max limit, because my car is rather heavy, i never managed to get the tyres over 55 degrees. EAlso when the wheels were totally wrong alligned with enormous amounts of toe-in front and rear(nearly full degree).

However, cheap "high" performance tyres do indeed act like the ones found in lfs. They get hot fast, stay hot, grip uh dont grip at all when cold or hot, wear out fast because the rubber is too soft. I once got such things with the car i bought, it was not a a performance car the engine had just 125hp, but even on that car the tyres were dangerously bad despite the manufacturer stated the tyres could handle max speeds of 240+ km/h.

So one could state, the tyres in lfs are simulating cheap high performance road tyres.

In lfs, its dead man racing with tyres at 10 degrees(if it would be possible) and you can burn your tyres within minutes with setups designed to keep the tempature down.

I just think tyres irl are more tolerant then in lfs. I think this is also true for the racing tyres.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Thu 17 Jan 2008, 12:02. Reason : type errors, bad english

Quote from DragonCommando :

I talked to my boss about this today, He's worked for several auto makers, such as Honda. And he basicaly confermed my statement, the TCC WILL NOT lock when the TPS (throttle position sensor) reads 100%. For it to lock the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) would have to report a speed of 255mph.

Very nice,

However there are very different types of auto-boxes. Most of them using a torgue converter. Modern torgue converters will lock up at full throttle and sufficient revs of the engine. It feels like a clutch, speed going up and engine speed going down at about 3,5k rpm usually and stays locked. If you keep the pedal down, lock is also engaged in next gear. Good example is the auto-box from carisma 1.8 gdi which always lockup as soon as possible, but never when accalarating from low rpm's, simulating a real clutch.

However, i believe everyone wo says some torgue-converters do not work like that. Also electronically auto-boxes can even behave differently with only a software update.

Also there are auto-boxes which are really manual gearboxes with a robot attached to it. Also there are automatices with two clutches and robitic systems in it.

Anyway, who cares about how fast auto-box is, a real racing car has a manual gearbox, sequential or semi-automatic. And the last one is usually the best.(not voor some road going cars which an do gear-changes very sloowwww "cup of cofee" speed gear changes..)

One last note, real auto-boxes are not always much worse then the manual version. Usually this is in small cars with very small engines. Higer class cars with auto-boxes are usually 0,5 sec to one sec slower from 0km/h to 100km/h then manual. Boxes with two clutches are usually faster then a full manual gearbox.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Thu 17 Jan 2008, 11:42. Reason : type error, extra info

Quote from Impreza WRX :

Vista sucks like a warp driven vaccum cleaner unless you have LOTS and I mean LOTS of RAM. I have it on Gigabyte-GSR and 1 GB of RAM is not enough for Vistra and gaming. Also, Vista slows down the hard drive to a grinding halt. I'm not giving up on x64 Windows XP just yet, and I can assure you every other game I have played (GT Legends, some top end Star Wars games, and the like) does not max out my system. TBH GT Legends looks awesome at 1280x1024 with everything turned on and up to the limit, and still pulling 75 FPS (Vsync).

Weird,
Vista 64 bits is running very wel here.
I must admit, a little bit more ram, faster cpu and faster graphics card.

Vista needs 4Gbyte to run very well and memory is currently very cheap...
Also remember to turn off al unwanted nice gimmicks microsoft has build into vista which you really dont need..

" should note that the LFS road tyres are softer than the sort of tyres most of us use on our cars. Just look at the grip they provide. Road supers give well over 1g in a corner, something most "shopping car" tyres will never give.

So don't think of Road supers and normals as direct link to RL road tyres"

High performance tyres on high performance road cars do give very good grip and handling. subary impreza' s and mitsibishi lancer evo' s are very good examples.

Also overheated tyres irl grip better then in lfs. Also shown in the drift movie. Also note in the a "get away from stockholm movie" a tuned nsx(500+hp i guess) was doing a rather very long burn-out. Yet she could still drive away with some dificulty because she was nearly flooring it but accalaration was still good dispite rear tyres still smoking from the burnout. After less then a minute grip was back to normal.
Very unlike how tyres in lfs behave...
It shouldnt be too difficult to have a fix to make grip loss severe when tyres are overheated or below optimum tempature.

Also very odd.. people keep on defending flaws in lfs and totally denying, refusing to believe real world examples. Why is that?

Lfs is very good, but not perfect, is there something wrong about not being perfect?

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sun 13 Jan 2008, 12:44. Reason : several type errors

Quote from Stigpt :

Should LFS have a third tin-top class - a kind of super-GTR, on the molds of GT2 (600+hp tintops, rearwheel drive) - I find the GTRs realy nice, but even bigger engines would be great - just 490hp, 3liter engines... I want the huge v10s with 700, 800 hp!

I agree 100%
The current gtr' s are really slow compared to "le mans class" gtr' s. Also the current gtr' s feel very heavy with handling as if they are over 1500kg.

super gtr' s spec examples:
Porsche RS Spyder LM-P2 class, 500HP and empty weight of about 780kg's. Will probably be very close to FO8

Or Dome S101, 4 liter V10 600-650hp (restricted) 900Kg empty weight. probably faster then FO8, but not on small twisty tracks , i guess...

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sat 12 Jan 2008, 18:20. Reason : type error

First releases of steam were a disaster. Nowadays it works very good. I don't have to look for keys etc. since it is attachted to my account.

Installed steam and got a nice list of games, some of which i didn't even know i owned them lol

So is lfs goed into steam, fine with me

Quote from XCNuse :

What exactly is a Le Mans 24h car?

Do you mean something like an LMP class car?

The audi or something like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_RS_Spyder

Quote from FlintFredstone :

I know that this is not directly relivent but, in the wet when i stopped my real world car (yes they exist outside our bedrooms ) my tyres were allways steaming a lot and quite warm to the touch, for fun one day i drove the car at 90 banana's per shooping bag (imperial) down the motorway, so no corners or anything left the motorway and gently braked into a parking bay and used the temperature probe from work, to my supprise the temps were 42 C inside and 38 C outside of the front tyre and 36 C and 35 C for the rear.

I suppose my tyres (Bridgestone RE70's) are closest to 'super road' tyres as they are pretty soft and a very hard sidewall and is treaded almost like a cut slick (with the wet performace to-boot )

What im trying to say here is that rolling along at a fair speed is going to stop any rapid cooling down of any 'soft' tyre.



Simon

The tyres of my real world car also had a tendency to get warm, the cause was way too much toe-in on front and rear(0,5 (!) degrees). I got it fixed and my tyres stay cold now with normal driving. On vacation in Luxemburg, last summer, i got the tyres to about 45-50 celcius with enviroment tempature of about 25 celcius. But it took a lot of hairpins and hard braking in the hills to get them so "hot".

Also cheaper tyres will usually get hot sooner. "High performance/sportscar" tyres will stay cooler because they need to or they wont be able to handle speeds of over 240km/h or the high loads of fast cornering.

Anyway, i think tyre tempature is important, but i think lfs is too much about tyre temps now. r2's and r3'2 should not get overheated so fast.

I just tryed patch Y for a few days and today i tested the fo8 on kv long.
With the old (race)setup, i cooked r2 tyres to over 150 celcius within three laps. So i switched to realistic camber and tyre pressure on r3. Now the tyres heat up must slower, but.. they never cool down on straights. So i end up with overheated tyres after 4(long) laps.

I also tested on kv national, reducing camber front and rear dramaticly. one tyre gets overheated within one lap and all tyres are too hot after two laps. The same setup (with a lot more negative camber) i used in patch x which could do 30 laps in patch 'x' and stay close to wr time with over the entire 30 laps(if fuel load is low enough..).

So i agree to that the tyres get overheated too fast now. I think too, the tyres should cool (much) faster on straiths. Or at least, tyre temps in the real world are not as critical as it is in lfs is now.

I do like the other changes though, such as clutch heating and more realistic gearboxes.

Try thrustmaster dual power 2/3

forcefeedback has some use and the tow analogue sticks are very good.
buttons areprogrammable, but is nog needed for lfs, since lfs is well written and supports all the buttons. Lfs is also one of the few games with which the forcefeedback of this dual analogue gamepad works well.

Quote from F.Rizzo :

• Limit Driving aids, such as traction control etc.
  
• Limit Controllers allowed. Wheel/keyboard/mouse only. 3 Peddles or H shifters only.
  
• Enforced setups. Lock to default/standard/factory setup or lock out particular setup changes.

all +1 from me!

The ability to enforce setups or parts of setups would be a fantastic feature for many obvious reasons ^^

Optional ban of TC is a very very good option which, i assume, is easy to implement. I hope it will be soon in lfs, because next F1 season TC is banned in F1. Also the BF1 is real fun to drive without TC, not as hard as some people expect it to be.

This thread has been dead for a while.

For long time i was wondering when it would become possible to have finer control over the wing settings. Today i really needed it with doing a few laps wih fo8 at as grand prix rev... So i searched the forum and found this thread.

I think finer wing settings should be easy to implement so please... give.. us finer wing adjustments


+ a lot

Can the balancing removed from all cars??

I now only drive the formula cars, because the fzr is simply very bad with the added weight

I really think tweaking/balancing should be done by adding just a little bit extra power to the slower cars. Adding weight kills the fun of the well designed cars, it makes then different, heavy, difficult to drive, killing the fun of lfs. Unskilled drivers in front with four wheel drives :Eyecrazy:... No more gtr racing for me

I could be the only one who dislikes the changes badly, correction hates them. I think a poll would be a very good idea :lovies:\

addon:
My idea to balance the gtr class:
fxr +20hp
xrr +10hp
fzr just as it was.

Fzr probably still the fasted car but also the most difficult to drive car, just as it should be.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sun 8 Jul 2007, 12:24. Reason : Added idea for balancing gtr class

hmm balancing a car class with totally different cars to be just as fast;
I think it will be the end of lfs especially if it is done by making faster cars heavier. Also it might just not be possible to balance cars to be just as fast and have totally different designs.

A race car with rear engine 3.6 6-in-line is simply a totally different to a race car with a 2 liter turbo charged engine in the front. Its just as in real world where some designs in le mans of gtr classes simply never win. Remember for some years nobody could beat the mclaren F1 or in a lower class the dodge vipers.

Instead of making the fzr heavier of even worse to drive, maybe its a better idea to make the xrr a bit more like the fzr. try to give it a 2.5 litre 5-cylinder turbo charged engine with less turbo-lag(less pressure from the turbo). Instead of the 2 liter with a very high pressure turbo, which has so much lag i can drink a cup of coffee while waiting for the power to come in.

Also the gtr cars are already rather slow for a gtr car, making any of them heavier or something like that is a very bad idea. Improve the cars a bit which are a bit too slow and accept for example that the rb4 and fxo cant be balanced to be competitive which each other. Just like the real world. It would be nice though if the xr gt weight would be reduced by about 20-40kg. That might make the fxo and the xrgt very well matched.

Anyway, my advise: Dont try to hard to balance the cars and if you do, only by making slower cars a little bit faster.

Since this is a performance discussion something a bit offtopic: the fo8 needs a bit more power 15-30hp for example, because there is not one track where the fo8 will need maximum front or rear downforce except for the few extreme short and small tracks. Causing the fo8 often to feel like underpowered. For comparision: gp2 cars have 600hp, a1gp cars have 550hp. 550-600hp=bad idea for fo8 though but something like 470-480hp would be perfect without any other changes.

Same for the fox, real world cars like the fox have in the real world 20-30 hp more horsepower. It would make the fox a lot more fun to drive in lfs, because the fox feels currently badly underpowered.

edit:
I noticed with newer testpatch fzr is heavier, now i understand why it was so hard to get into 1:42.xx on as national.
thinking here of quiting lfs.. There are more racesims in this world with proper gtr's.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sun 1 Jul 2007, 20:38. Reason : noticed weight increase on fzr is already permant

Quote from Bluebird B B :

Modern race cars dont have one, drivers have a pit-crew who start shouting in there headsets they are running out of fuel

Wrong, some modern race cars DO have an low fuel light indicator.

See also this:
http://www.gto.eu/videodisp.ph ... 1&cache=no&id=309
one problem, it is a dutch movie. Driver is telling about al the lights and buttons. The big red light/lookalikebutton with text saying SPARE FUEL under it, is the indicator. It is at 3 minute 19 seconds.

So now lfs crew, give us low fuel light indicators in all cars!!!

edit: at 3:28 the driver is saying clearly SPARE FUEL

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:44. Reason : adding some extra info

o yeah
editing the host file does work

213.40.196.103 master.liveforspeed.net


Although remember to remove it in three days

Master server still not working :chairfall:splando:

Gonna play some other game in the meantime

edit
http://ts3.servfire.net/phpBB2
url not found

With the bf1, its more or less ok you can go through pitlane limit with speed-limitier. Just dont hit the speedlimit full throttle.

What i do hate, you get a pit-lane speeding while you going 80,0km/h.

Penalty should start from 81,0km/h

I think there a lot more improvements possible on the tyre-temps and wear:

I noticed too that in lfs tyres on some track/car combo' s keep warming and overheat after 5 laps. Even with R3 tyres at maximum pressure, wv international with bf1 for example.

In real world overheating of tyres is usually not a very big issue espacially on the real racers(gtr and formula cars), because the tyres were designed for high tempatures and heavy loads.
My real life experience with tyres rated for high speeds is, these will stay cold at high speeds(for a road car). They don' t heat up at all even after driving for long period of time over 200km/h. But on an other car with tyres not suited for high speeds i noticed those tyres did get mildly warm(not hot) at slower speeds of around 100km/h.

Also i think tyres in real world are not so precise about the optimum tempature, A tyre will certainly have a larger range of optimum tempature than in lfs. for example r2 on bf1 from 80 to 95 celcius. R3 from 90 to 105 and r4 from 100 to 115 celcius. Not the ridiculous narrow of lfs with 85 to 90 for r2. Regular road tyres will have a range of maximum grip between 20 and 60 celcius.

Also the tyre wear should increase as the tyre temp does, hot tyres sometimes still give decent grip, but they wear out real fast because the rubber gets too soft at high tempatures.

But, maybe it is possible in lfs to make at least the tyres cool down a lot faster on straits? Should be just changing one variable in the game and make it a lot better with just such a small change

I have the black screen problem to be exact since... i installed patch V.
Happned to me about three times last week(vacation ) About once every 5 hours of play with shift+F4 Got exactly the same as other people, still the sounds etc.


I just it report too, to make sure it gets back on de buglist and is removed fromt the list of bug fixes

system:
w2k with All patches and servicepacks of M$
graphics: asus ati 850xt pe with latest drivers of asus (note: card sucks due to overheating problems when used for more "heavy" games than lfs)

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Fri 5 Jan 2007, 10:32.

Master server still offline bah!

Someone donate a ups to the dev-team!